Range Report: JP and Historian Go To The Long Range
Spotter On
Shooter Ready
Send it…
Recently, Historian and I, a fellow AP contributor, who writes about radios and rifle training with .22 LR’s, have been visiting a “local” range that has full size steel silhouettes, 8 inch steel zero targets, and 20 inch wind check circular steel targets from 300-1100 Yards. The venue hosts an “open” range day that requires a registration, check in, and a good old fashioned safety brief. The range offers morning and afternoon blocks at medium and long range. Allowing one to shoot in the morning (with all the AM environmental effects) and shooting in the afternoon (with all the afternoon environmental effects). It is absolutely challenging and is widely considered one of the hardest ranges to shoot in the area due to the terrain, range design, and constant wind.
Shooting at this venue is a breeze and a blast. [Chuckles internally]
Thus far we have done a morning and an afternoon shoot. The morning shoot had incredible wind from 5-15 MPH with a few brief 20 MPH gusts and an increasing temperature from about 50-70 degrees. The afternoon shoot had a steady 90 degree temp, full sun, a mirage that did not make spotting the trace or splash difficult but did require a higher attention to detail to track, and the wind was a constant from 5-10 MPH but stayed in the 5+/- MPH range. I admit, I lost a few of the splashes in mirage at 1,000 towards 16:00 but it wasn’t detrimental to our efforts.
The solution to the mirage problem is to simply extend your tripod for your spotting scope and stand up above the mirage in line with your shooter.
The range is a full 90 degrees wide, so you must shift your wind calls depending on your shooting position. Wind values range from zero to full depending on your shooting position and there are gaps in the trees, changes in terrain, and even a small body of water. So gaging wind is as much a wild educated guess as it is a fixed rule of science. The range is popular with hunters, precision enthusiasts, Federal and State agencies, and various military guys from all backgrounds. It’s a great experience, and the price keeps the riff-raff far away, but is affordable. It is a very professional, but relaxed gentlemen’s range. I even ran into some NG Scout/Snipers who are currently serving in my old unit.
Small world.
Historian and I began the shoot sessions with some greetings, small talk, setting up our position, taking some wind measurements, scouting our targets while working up a plan of engagement, and inspecting our equipment.
An unofficially official notional coin toss determines who shoots first and who spots first.
Make no mistakes about Long Range Shooting; Spotting the trace and the splash with a good wind call is just as important as the shooting. The 4 fundamentals never change whether you are shooting near or far.
It’s a team effort too.
Historian and I, working in tandem, have made some pretty wild shots. I made a 6th round impact at 1,000 yards using an M1a with an Aimpoint RDS(zero magnification), thanks to Historian spotting for me. and I spotted for Historian allowing him to make a 1st round impact, perfectly centered, with iron sights at 1,000 yards using a CMP Korean era M1 Garand. Both shots were on steel silhouettes. We were using standard, plain old mil-spec M80 ball ammo
Our efforts at 600 before shooting 1,000 have been typical as well. Some of the groups were pleasantly small. Without some warmups and a little practice at the medium range targets, the long range shots would have been about as wild and wonderful as West Virginia itself.
Our attempts with bolt weapons have also proved to be extremely fruitful. I believe my base model Remington 700 is a 1 MOA gun using 168 HPBT ammo that is a foreign clone of the Federal Gold Medal Match 168’s. I will certainly consider purchasing more of that ammo(PPU brand), but Historian recommends I try the 175’s because very clearly my efforts at 600 meters were easy once I dialed my windage and elevation in correctly compared to 1,000 yards. The 168’s do not handle the transonic transition well at all. The ammo was stunningly accurate inside of 800. I was smacking 8 inch steel at 600 meters to the point of boredom. But past 800 the 168’s are all over the map.
And by map, I mean they were landing basically anywhere within my scope’s field of view at 1,000. Which is nothing short of 1/4 a football field (quite literally)
Historian, using a previously owned Fudd hunting rifle he seemingly rescued from Elmer himself, noted to me that Fudd himself claimed he couldn’t hit the broad side of Godzilla at 300. Historian, using some knowledge and elbow grease, remedied that with some bedding magic, handloads, and proper hardware. The rifle, contrary to Fudd lore, is shooting 1 MOA with fire formed brass. AKA, brass that is fire formed to the chamber of the rifle and reloaded. Providing as much as 1/2 MOA off the margin.
What did we learn?
Grandpa’s hunting rifle (Or his CMP Garand…) is probably a 1,000 yard gun with the right ammo and a good spotter. Especially if the spotter and shooter are practiced and can effectively communicate what is occurring downrange. Sometimes, the spotter and shooter disagree, but splitting the difference works better than you would think.
Not too long ago, during the era of our fathers and grandfathers, iron sights were king and our predecessors debated open notch, aperture, and peep sights to the same degree of exhaustion that we discuss LPVO’s, Prisms, High Powered HD Scopes of the First and Second Focal Plane, and ACOGs.
Mil-Dots, BDC’s, or custom Reticles? Â Our fathers and grandfathers fought well with iron sighted weapons, but times have changed, and modern weapons are significantly more effective.
The enemies of the U.S., both foreign and domestic, will have highly trained and experienced Long Range(LR) shooters. It would behoove us to test our equipment to the extreme. Testing your zero, and dialing your weapons in at long range is important. It’s far better to have your weapon dialed in just right for long range, than to assume you can and will fight inside of 300 meters.
I have heard a million times that 168’s are only good to 800 (the edge of the transonic transition between Supersonic and Subsonic). But I had to prove it to myself. And 80 rounds later, I am certainly convinced. But damn are they accurate inside of 800. One of the many questions that can be answered on a proper range.
Some other questions are listed below.
Do you know how many rounds you can fire before your rifle barrel heats up and your groups shift?
For me I use bull barrels, so there is little noticeable shift, but it does shift and I will miss.
For pencil barrels the shift is obvious, even to the spotter, and can be rather significant.
How many enemy could you effectively engage before you need to break contact because of the limitations of your barrel’s thermal capacity? Maybe 10 shots? Perhaps only 5 shots in full sun on 90 degree day?
How far away can you knowingly and reliably engage a target? Making a first round or second round hit.
How long does it take for your barrel to cool down in the sun? How long in the shade?
These are questions that can ONLY be answered one way. There are no tricks or tips that can teach this. There are other considerations too.
Despite what you may think, those iron sights on the AK that read “800” or “1,000” meters work. And they work just fine. What you need to learn is how the wind effects your rounds at that distance. Which is significant and no small task. But it’s not hard and it is predictable, measurable, and repeatable. Start near and work your way out to distance. Recording the data of your efforts so that you don’t have to memorize it.
If you can measure twice and cut once, you can shoot long range. Believe me.
If you can shoot a penny at 25 meters consistently, You have the proper rifleman’s fundamentals to shoot to 1,000 meters/yards with some knowledge, practice, training, and that $400 dollar hunting rifle.
You need a spotter too. It’s a team effort.
Now imagine 10 men with AKs who know what they are doing at 1,000. Would you want to be standing there? Would you want to be hiding in a house, car, or a “bunker”?
You do not need a $5,000-$10,000 gun to shoot long range. That’s a marking gimmick meant to make you feel inadequate, insecure, and to empty your pockets. When you should be training, working with a spotter and as a spotter, and recording some data. Start by gathering up all the data you can find on the internet from reliable sources concerning wind and bullet drop. I bet your round is close enough to use that as a base, even if you can’t find the exact round, velocity, and barrel length. You’ll have a nice blueprint to use as a template for building your own tables and charts.
The same is true for the AK as is the iron sights on the M-16 family of rifles and all the NATO spec battle rifles. As long as you have the proper rear sights installed and the correct ammo for the job, you can make it happen. It’s important to familiarize yourself with the limitations of your weapon, optics, and ammo. It’s even more important to practice communicating as a spotter with your shooter, and vice versa. Don’t expect first round impacts. But 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 is absolutely doable.
Get out and train. 9mm might be expensive, but the premium ammo and battle rifle mil-spec ammo hasn’t changed price much. Historian has proved to me many times that an old hunting rifle from the 1950’s and 1960’s is a 1,000 yard gun.
The question is: Are you and your friend a 1,000 yard team?
I embedded a link to an excellent article on calling wind and understanding it. That data might be specific for a few rounds, but the principle is the same for most rounds with only a few factors that change. Namely, are you using a Boat-tail(BT) round or not.
Get out, train, have fun, and swing by the Forum to brag about your Long Range exploits.
And if you aren’t shooting during a nasty, hot, windy day. Are your even trying to learn?
Shooting at long range will teach you a lot about your fundamentals as well. And don’t be afraid to pull out that red dot and try it at max range. You’ll be surprised if you pay attention and work with your spotter.
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That’s one of those “gun guy” things that always pisses me off about Hollywood “sniper” movies. They always, always, have the senior man (the protagonist) on the gun. The SPOTTER should be the most experienced- the shooter’s job is simple- he simply takes the adjustments from the SPOTTER who makes the range and wind calls and who calls the corrections….
It’s exactly like calling for fire using indirect weapons. You are essentially bracketing the target.
Great call out American Yeoman. Outstanding article JP.
Thanks Brother!
Great article! Thanks for posting.
Thanks brother
That was worth the time to read. Regarding the barrel heating up and changing the group, I’m wondering if shooting 5-10 rounds from the same spot isn’t a good way to get zapped. Just a noob thinking out loud…
It’s a good way to get zapped if you have poor camouflage, concealment, and/or cover. In Baghdad everyone who used proper techniques made a clean getaway.
Every. Single. One. However, you are certainly correct. Which is why I plan to fire no more than 3 rounds and I am working on the one shot solution to my problems.
5
“One shot, one kill” Nope, One shot One correction is more like it
Correct on all counts.
One of the best deals for getting into long range shooting is the Savage Axis II XP rifle & scope combo in 6.5 Creedmoor. For less the five hundred dollars you can pickup a rifle that’ll shoot well past 1,000 yards. It’s not über tactical, but it just plain works. I’ve seen this on two separate rifles using plain old Hornady American Gunner factory ammo.
Old guns can indeed be very accurate and can a lot of times be had fairly cheaply. When checking them out make sure that the action & trigger functions smoothly and that the bore & crown and in good condition. Be sure to look at how the scope mounts on older rifles. Some of them use now nonstandard mountings which limit what type of scopes (magnification & tube diameter) you can mount. I picked up an old, used Browning falling block in ’86 and it still shoots MOA, but with the way the scope attaches I can neither use canted rails nor 34mm tubes. Try to find a rifle that will allow you to mount a rail (EGW makes good ones) and you’ll be good to go.
Concerning groups opening up as the barrels heat, they make little strips that will stick to the barrel and indicate its’ temperature. They’re only a couple of bucks. When you’re shooting an extended session, the barrel temperature climbs, and the groups start opening, note the temperature. That’ll give you something in the future to try to stay below. Also, they make barrel coolers that are small fans with attached tubes that go into the chamber and blows cool(er) air down the barrel. It helps to cool it down between groups.
A problem I see is people chasing their shots at long range. The bullet hits right & low so they correct left & high.
You have to remember the size of the group that you & your rifle are capable of shooting. Those group sizes will increase at longer ranges as the bullets slow and loose stability.
For instance, we were shooting at a 36″ gong at 2,000 yards. If you were to be using a 1.0 MOA rifle and and everything was perfect the group size would extrapolate to 21″ at that range. But things are never perfect. More than likely that rifle’s group that was 1 MOA at 100 yards will more than like be 1.5 or 2.0 MOA at 2,000 yards due to bullet stability, bullet imperfections, the diminished ability to exactly center the crosshairs, etc.
As a result the group size might now be as large as 42″ and you could easily hit off the edge while the group is still centered on the target. If you correct off one shot you are just moving your group all over the place. Take several shots to get a feel for the group size at that range, and then correct from its’ center.
And most importantly, write down what you’re doing and what the results were. You’ll forget the finer details by the time you get home, much less before your next range trip. By recording all the pertinent data you’ll have a leg up next time. This will be the beginning of your DOPE book.
Matt
Correct on all counts.
I got carried away with my ramblings and forgot my original point. Getting on target at 1,000 yards with a RDS and open sights is one hell of an accomplishment. I’ve seen people with reeeaally expensive rigs struggle to get on target at 300 & 500 yards.
Hat’s off to both JP and Historian for doing so well, they obviously know their stuff. Please keep the good articles coming.
Matt
Thanks brother! The real trick is to have a perfect zero and push your way out to distance. It was also very humid. So we had excellent trace. It was a really great time shooting. I’m ready to pick a favorite bullet and really get settled in on my gun. I think I am gonna use the Hornady ELD rounds, but I may use a Lapua or Sierra.
And you mentioned the basic Hornady 6.5 ammo being good ammo. I have shot a sub-MOA group with that stuff on a Ruger American. Which has been praised for being a great gun by several of the authors on this site. It really is a sweet rifle.
The Ruger American is a nice gun. I wish the stock was a little more stiff, but you can’t argue with results.
On all my long range rifles, I use Hornady’s ELD-M bullets at the highest weight the particular rifles will stabilize. I’ve had outstanding luck with each, even the .300 whose twist is too slow but somehow still manages to spin them up fast enough. I always go with the heavier bullets even though they’re slower because with their higher B.C. they deflect less due to the winds and retain their velocity way better than the lighter bullets.
I’d like to play around with Hornady’s new A-Tips, but as they’re generally four times the price of the ELD-Ms the extra little bit of B.C. doesn’t seem worth the cost.
Matt
@ Matt
Re: “On all my long range rifles, I use Hornady’s ELD-M bullets at the highest weight the particular rifles will stabilize.”
Just a shout-out to second your endorsement of Hornady. A mentor of mine taught me to use their products years back and they have only upped their game since that time. This same mentor, a retired senior military officer who taught me reloading, has since become a Berger proponent – but that might have something to do with him getting a distribution deal with them, too, and not just their products. But I digress.
Berger makes a good product and Bryan Litz is an extremely bright man, but I don’t like all of the extra time/effort their products take with seating depth experimentation,nor the fact that many of their offerings won’t work out of stock factory/OEM barrels. Hornady innovates and just makes great products, loaded factory ammo and reloading components alike. I still like and use for certain things Sierra, but not as much as I used to. Hornady is that good.
Among factory match ammo, an under-appreciated company is Prvi Partisan (PPU), who make nice reasonably priced match-grade target ammo, and also the Czech company Sellier & Bellot. Lapua and Norma are tops for loading components, certainly the equal of the best American firms. The Finnish company Vihtavuori – now owned by Beretta? – are wonderful. Their propellants are fabulous.
Matt: I will freely admit that luck paid a big part in a first round hit at 991 yards, but what I found encouraging was that my horizontal dispersion was only about 3 feet or so, and more importantly, my vertical dispersion as reported by JP was tighter, around a foot to 18 inches, centered on the target excepting a called flyer which was low. This tells me that my elevation hold was consistent, but that keeping that 18″ wide silhouette exactly centered on the front sight blade was a problem as was the wind.
At a thousand yards, an 18″ target is only 1/3 the width of the front post.I may inlay a gold wire in the center of that front post for just such occasions.
Again, I was lucky, but luck comes to the prepared. And the guy with a good spotter.
” . . . I will freely admit that luck paid a big part in a first round hit at 991 yards . . . ”
On the last day of the Second Battle of Adobe Walls there was a buffler hunter named Billy Dixon who was using a borrowed Sharps rifle because his had been lost went his wagon went down in a river crossing. Towards the end of the day an Indian on horseback appeared on the top of a far off Mesa. Billy aimed at him and fired, knocking the Indian off his horse. It was surveyed as a distance of 1,538 yards.
He later admitted that it was a “scratch shot” (a lucky shot). He was both correct and incorrect, as are you.
Yes, some luck was involved in your first round hit, as it is with all shooting. But it takes good solid skill to get it close to the target with a cold shot. It takes knowing our rifle, it’s ballistics, the winds, the environments and putting all of that information together into a cohesive plan for the shot. I’ve seen plenty of people shooting at matches and standing behind the line jaw jacking until their turn comes up. They normally don’t do well.
To me, the hardest part is determining the wind before the shooting. A lot of our ranges are flat and open with little in the way of trees or flags for indicators. You can tell the wind is blowing, but exact clock positions and strengths are hard to accurately determine. At this point it seems as much art as science. I hope to get better at reading them, and will practice towards that goal.
Matt
I was looking at the photo above and noticed the Mirage Shield that the shooter has on his barrel. I had pondered those before so seeing one again I went off in search of articles concerning them.
One author talked about how his rifle shot really well until his barrel heated up, then the groups opened up. For whatever reason he put on a mirage shield on his barrel and his groups immediately dropped back to normal. The culprit was mirage coming off his hot barrel.
I’m going to have to try one of these (they can very cheaply be made with either a slat from a vertical blind or just cardboard) to see if it helps cut down the barrel induce mirage.
Matt
I too noticed that Mirage Shield. Which is also a required piece of equipment if one uses a silencer as well(Though they use Jackets) I wonder if there is some way to make one out of a piece of Aluminum and also use it as a radiator and a sun shield. Now that would be something I am interested in.
wide aluminum Venetian blind with Velcro. works great
I was just looking at this. I am also looking into some water cooled solutions. Historian mentioned a bucket with some water and some rags. Sounds cheap and easy…
You could also use crushed ice or ice cubes in a ziplock bag either directly on the barrel or on top of a thin cloth.
Matt
I have another idea that is only gonna cost 60 bucks! It’s gonna be AWESOME!
And, I should mention this. In SWFL virtually NO ONE is going to the ranges except a handful of the usual suspects. Which leads us (and I mean the usual suspects who clean copper out of the grooves twice a week) to ask this…How much ammo and how many components do people need when their platform is not zero’d or laddered on best handloads or boxed ammo? Will you trust that M(X)193 et al. to shoot what you think it is supposed to shoot. It won’t. Do you think those external ballistic charts and drop values on the box will help you overcome your unknown platform harmonics. It won’t. Ever looked at your primer strikes on the brass after you’ve gone FA with your AR-10 with a suppressor? Do you know how to read pressure spikes and cratering from your bolt? If you ask me, as a benchrest shooter, the virtual absence of people working on their perishable skills is pathetic among the specific audience I’m referring to. /end of rant you should listen to.
Hey you aren’t wrong. That’s why I wrote the post to convince the new guys it’s easy to shoot to 1,000 yards and you don’t need to be a rocket scientist or a Super Ranger Marine Sniper SEAL. Just some sweat, elbow grease, and a little practice. And a competent spotter.
Well, JP, *you* may find it easy, (grin) but what I would say is that if you have the fundamentals down, (NPOA, breathing, sight picture, squeeze, proper hold and position, leveling your stick L/R, etc.) and a good spotter, it isn’t as hard as folks want you to think, especially if you use bags or a bipod. At least as long as it isn’t windy, and as long as the batteries for the laser rangefinder hold out. It takes practice, however, and especially takes someone to teach you how to read the wind. This is where having an experienced spotter really helps. Many moons ago, I shot competitive high power, and the spotter would tell me my hold. As long as I did the fundamentals right, I’d get hits; this was known distance shooting, so all I had to do was put the front sight where I was told to and deliver the shot properly.
Out to perhaps 600 yards in steady winds less than 10 mph, using good optics, I expect to get first round hits, and am annoyed at myself when I do not. Getting first round hits every time at a thousand yards is another matter, even with a 1 MOA stick and outstanding optics.
I have seen a skilled shooter go 25 for 25 first round hits in competition at this shooting range.
Once. I am told it has been done twice. Ever.
As you noted, JP this is a challenging range varying well over 90 degrees in azimuth, and with distances from 400+ yards to over 1000 yards being able to read the wind is key. Being able to deliver a follow-up shot quickly is likewise a very useful skill, as if you can call your shots and know when you had a good hold then you know where the wind was pushing your bullet when you last fired; except in the most severe conditions, being able to fire again within a couple seconds means you will have the same conditions. If you run a bolt, spend time on rapid manipulation of the bolt. JP can probably offer some tips as his bolt work is good.
Wind drift for a 175 grain MKHP at 600 yards is half the drift at a thousand, but that assumes that the wind is the same all the way there, which it frequently is not. At the longer ranges one cannot see the ground from about 400 to 800 yards, so the only way to get any idea of the wind is to focus on the boil or mirage between 400 and 800 and make your wind call from that. Being able to do this takes a good spotting scope, or a very good higher power rifle scope.
“But,” I hear some folks saying, “I don’t have a thousand yard range close by!”
take your .22 and go to the 100 yard range on a windy day, and shoot it. I guarantee you will learn something about the wind.
With regard to all who serve and seek the Light,
Historian
4.5
Saved as PDF. This discussion is a keeper. I humbly thank you.
MY how exiciting it will be when you hear the enemy guys your hunting, screaming in terror and pain up ahead,and as you approch them you see why,,their under attack by VELOCIRAPTORS,long sharpe teeth,ripping them to pieces ,and then you realize they’ve now seen you and NOW your under attack to,and these deadly animals will be in the forests of ALL the mountain ranges of america,..AND you wouldn’t like how their getting there…but don’t worry,you’ll be meeting them,OH,and these animals love the taste of children…THEY were raised eating them…
Velociraptors huh?
Man. Shrooms and Jurassic Park.
I don’t have enough coffee in me yet to understand what in the everloving fuck this man is talking about….
I was standing right next to my coffee maker when the bats showed up. We are certainly in bat country now I said to myself.
SO you erased my comment,well I’am not mad,I really feel sorry for you,now you’ll learn the hard way…
And what would that be?
Re: “You do not need a $5,000-$10,000 gun to shoot long range. That’s a marking gimmick meant to make you feel inadequate, insecure, and to empty your pockets.”
Just chiming in to second J.P.’s astute remark. I used to work in the retail FA industry (don’t anymore, thanks) for a well-known national chain, and sold a lot of firearms, ammo and accessories in my time to all sorts of customers. It is literally true today that even budget optics are often of higher quality and contain better/more-usable features than many of the optics the U.S. Army and Marine Corps took to war in Vietnam a half-century ago or so. There were some very optics made – Unertl for one, the long-time supplier for the Marine Corps, made some good scopes that were built like tanks – but also some scopes and optics that did not resist weather well, fogged-up, or otherwise quit working under field conditions. And even when they worked, those old scopes didn’t always track true. To be fair, the same can be said of modern optics, but I digress….
The commercial FA, ammo and accessories market is so crowded and competitive today that manufacturers are building into even their budget products features that were unheard of twenty-five years ago, let alone fifty or more. A budget bolt-action from Savage, Ruger or one of the other companies offering such fare often include cold-hammer forged free-floated barrels, user-adjustable triggers, ergonomic stocks, scope mounts and rings, and some models now come with a scope included in the deal. Many makers now guarantee one moa or better performance using match ammunition, out of their flagship rifles, and now such promises are making their way into mid- and budget-priced lines, too. The modern user may yawn, but recall that when the USMC was evaluating a new sniper rifle in the mid-1960s, the specification called for in terms of accuracy was, if memory serves, two to two-and-a-half moa or better. And that’s with a Remington M700 or before that, a Winchester M70 accurized by the finest Marine Corps armorers.
If you run into an unscrupulous salesman, he’ll try and sell you the moon, stuff you don’t need. Do your homework before shopping, or if that isn’t possible, take a knowledgeable friend along. Optics are a particular area of emphasis. The conventional wisdom holds that you need to be prepared to spend 1-2x as much on your optic as on the rifle itself. Well, sometimes yes, sometimes not. It all depends on what your budget is, and what you are trying to accomplish. I’ve owned or used in the field, or at least handled, everything from top-end Nightforce NSX and Zeiss Conquest scopes costing well north of a grand to budget optics costing only $100 down at the local Farm & Home.
The gap between the top-end stuff and the budget stuff isn’t as wide as it once was, and certainly not as wide as some sales people and manufacturer’s reps would have you believe. As with other industries, there are typically only a handful of manufacturers who actually make the glass or whatever else used in the scope; the rest are companies which brand them, put their name on them, design in a few custom bits, and then distribute/sell them. Many competitors sell scopes made on the same assembly lines, in fact, just under different names.
Match your gear to your needs. Start with the end in mind. What are you trying to accomplish? Once you answer that question, then you can make intelligence choices about how much to spend and what on. If you are dude whose only annual use of his .270 Winchester M70 hunting rifle is to take a deer once a year at 150-yards, then you simply don’t need a 20x scope with premium glass costing as much as your house payment. Modest magnification will do, and probably a simple duplex reticle. If, on the other hand, you have ambitions to “go long,” then maybe you decide to lay out some coin for something nicer. Provided you have the budget, that is.
Whatever you do, don’t make the most common newbie error of all – substituting fancy gear for training and experience. A good man with mediocre gear will shade the inexperienced new man with top-end gear, every time…. count on it. You needn’t spend much to get rolling on shooting out to 600-800 yards, and once you learn that reasonably well, you’ll both deserve and be ready for something fancier and with longer legs. Most of the pros – the old salts who did it for a living in the Army or the Marines – tell new LR shooters to start with the .308. It’s cheap, available, easily-reloaded, and well-sorted out ballistically. It isn’t an elite performer in terms of long-range wind performance or flatness of trajectory, but once you have shot enough .308, graduating to something like 6.5 Creedmoor or one of the other highly-efficient 6.5-7mm cartridges will open your eyes and raise your game. And by that time, you’ll be enough of a shooter to exploit the advantages it offers. With the emergence of 6.5 CM, this orthodoxy has changed somewhat, but it is still sound-enough.
Oh, and J.P. – 168-grainers are fine inside 800, just as you said, but virtually everyone in the .308 LR community who needs to go further out is running at least something in the 175-178 range, and often 190-grain SMKs or the like. And if you graduate to something like 30-06, 300 WM or 300PRC, you can get into those heavy and highly-efficient projectiles of 200 grains and above. It isn’t until about that weight range that their BCs start to get really tasty.